Sin and Neurosis

Spero's paper on sin and neurosis is uncomfortable as to where this is heading ( Spero, 1982). Fear of sin is understandable in the context of obsessions and anxiety as neurosis. The concept of sin, internal locus of control and guilt is possibly not Freud's plan although Melanie Klein certainly talked about the guilt of splitting and hate appeased by reparation. It is a retrograde step blaming the victim I feel. Is this Freud's main concern about religion? Certainly as ethic or moral duty and the contest between id and super-ego one can see sin as cause of neurosis.
Reference
Spero, M.H. (1982) Sin and Neurosis in Reuven P. Bulka & Moshe HaLevi Spero Eds AS Psychology-Judaism Reader Springfield Illinois: Charles C.Thomas Publishers.

EROS

Solomon's Song of Songs- eros
also allegory?
sex, procreation,
Music
Rebbe Nachman's story/ allegory of the switched prices, dream interpretation, music, gardens, kingship ad Shekinah.

Martin Buber

Martin Buber from Vienna Leipzig Berlin worked at the same time;same university as Freud and part of the community. He was going to study psychiatry. He criticized Freud and Jung. Needs a chapter to himself comparing his philosophy to Freud's. See reference http://www.iep.utm.edu/buber/

thoughts from Israel

Perhaps the Jewish people feel that Freud sold out on them, used the philosophy but refused to be art of the community or give credit where it as due. Maybe he also argued against some of the concepts.
Although he studied western philosophy and used words such as libido, psyche etc to fit in with German and western ideas, this was needed to be able to communicate. He was also brought up with Jewish philosophy- something complety different and hidden even now except for those ho seek to ask. Like the Chabad proselytes they ask if you are Jewish first- if so, you know, if not- have a nice day. Well it is only when all the Jewish souls are gathered, all the sparks of illumination within the husks have been gathered that the messianic age will occur. That means only the chosen ones. Freud was a humanist. We are all God's people and theerefore all chosen. We all suffer and we all need help. The individuality of Freud's era however is at odds with the communitarian approach of most older cultures, including Judaism.
2.
The ancient tombs were headed by a pyramid with a benben on top. The Mount of lives is a necrpolis outside the city walls of the living. The journey for the second coming included icon and clothes for the next world as well as a body embalmed rather than mummified. The parrallels with ancient Egypt is large. Learning was very important to both cultures, the library at Alexandria and purported library in the temple of the Sphynx- the Shrine of the Book, Torah and the importance of the word, alphabet. Thee solar and celestial calendars for feasts and timing of the Shabbat, is the same as Ptolemy's. Need I add that the israelites lived in Egypt, followed ? an Egyptian Moses aand according to Freud followed Akinaten, who worshipped the one God- the Atun or sun God. So God is described as the light, illumination, the support of all life. Temples were built to allow the sun to enter the holy of holies at the correct time and day for sacred festivals, possibly sex for giving birth in Spring- like sowing ad reaping harvests. ( Lomas and Knight). The evil eye- the all seeing eye, the eye of Horus- Egyptian, Judaic, Freemasonry, Catholic-all the same.
One needs to wear a kippur, hat, scarf, wig to protect/ separate you from God, the light, the sun- so you dont get sunburnt? Shabbat prayers turn to the east and the west- the rising and setting sun?
3
So much of what is essentially Jewish philosophy has permeated our culture without us knowing it- like I think happened to Freud- unconscious Eg- my right hand man. The right hand is the positive apects of the Sepirot, the male ( I think), the active.
4
Freud had a beard- must see how many photos there are with him if any without beard- is this religious. So too had Marx but not Einstein.
5
Must check - Darwin 's relative was Erasmus- was he Jewish????
The evolution of Man and the developmental stages of Man towards perfection is a Kabbalist concept- ontogeny/phylogeny?? argument
6Must check what books were found in Freud's bookshelf that were Jewish and what his father wrote in the Phillipson's Bible- a mixture of different saying from the Bible and Talmud- ? Kabbalist discussions
6
Freud was seen as dour, depressed miserable and this is some of the arguments about him- obsessional etc. But he was in pain and a terrible operation - prosthetic jaw. Where is the evidence of the joyful family man the capacity to see through pain and suffering to the spark inide and the ability to dance in ecstasy.
7.
How much influence had his grandfather over his life?
8.
Where are the synagogues in Leopoldt strasse? Was there Chabad Houses?
What form of Judaism was he immersed in.
9
The candles at the tomb of the RaMBaN- reminded me of burnt offerings- sacrificial slaughter must have been seen a a primitive and unacceptable part of Christian worlds, so a symbolic offering that is burnt- same as the Catholic Church .
10
The symbol in dream interpretation need to be further elucidated
I think they are coded in the explanations of the aleph/beit.
11
Depresion is narcissism- poor me! The treatment is to see past the husks and move to the divine spark within- is this not the process of psychoanalyis?
more uestions than answers.

moses and monotheism

The other Moses - Maimonides
Chapter 1 in Guide to the perplexed
explains the metaphorical, or abstract, internal perception through thought rather than a literal interpretation of the Talmud.
Possibly this is where Freud came to the thought of the Jewish person's capacity to abstract, given the unknowable nature of God.
Maimonides also says that man being made in God's image is an abstract idea. He argues that only humans have the capacity for speech and thought, which is how God communicated with them. So the capacity for thought is close to Godliness, not the physical form. Also idols were not the problem, only the incorporeal concept of what they symbolised was the problem. This is the stimulus to know thyself to know God. Maybe a pantheist approach, ie God is to be found within me and all humans.
Although one cannot deny that the sun produces the light on our Earth, without which we would not be here, at least in this form, the light is possibly enlightenment, thought, knowledge, the capacity to know and transcend nature. As in I see the light or the aha moment.
The more you introspect, the more disconnected you become with the physical world. Food becomes less important and thoughts and reflection become the food of the soul. I can attest to this. In this way, teaching people to know themselves, through psychoanalysis, which one hopes generalises to become a lifetime of self examination and reflection, is akin to Maimonides raah, hibbit and hazel and to find inner peace. In this way there is more moral understanding of good and evil, the apparent truths, rather than the necessary truths of true and false. This then leads tot he concept of Freud as the moralist. Freud however attempted to come to this learning by logical analysis, which he termed science.

today

Why Epicurus and Freud?
Look at our lives today.
What happened to friendship? With fragmentation of families, increased social mobility, 50% divorce rates and jails filled to overflowing. What about the hand of friendship to illegal aliens' and 'boat people?
What about consumerism? The gross consumerism which does not share with poorer nations. Obesity, mountains of rubbish, fast food, diabetes, long hours of work to buy ever larger houses full of material goods. Does any of it bring lasting happiness?
what about globalisation? The rape of the poor for the greed of the fat. Globalisation could have been a greater good but it was hijacked.
what about politics and war? War over religions. greed, oil. Nuclear arms race.The point is?
What happened to thinking? Decline in students seeking arts, humanities, philosophy education. Rise in science and sciencism. Lots of chatter but very little thinking.
Public education as industrial revolution mentality. Teach them enough to be able to be skilled enough to do their job- the cog in the great wheel of industry. Don't teach them to think or any more than they need or it just might be dangerous. Business schools that source large enterprises for content in learning. No wonder ethics is not taught. Business ethics is seen as an oxymoron! Business without ethics is a short term gain.
Individualism over communitarianism.
Homogeneity versus diversity
Environmental issues-pollution;global warming;oil spills on the reef;extinction of species;corporate take over of the genome and overpopulation to name a few.
We could learn a lot if we went back to Freud and Epicurus

journal/conference

What about a free online Journal of Philosophy and Psychoanalysis.
What about a virtual conference in philosophy and psychoanalysis. The papers from the conference can be published in the journal.
The journal can be Web2.0 friendly with discussion and videos.

two moses

Moses Maimonides was a famous Jewish philosopher. He is revered and people speak of between Moses (Moshe) and Moses (Moshe). Some years passed between both these Moses. Both are seen as messianic.The first gave us the Mosaic law, given to him at Mt Sinai. The second gave the 13 principles of faith among other philosophies.
The aha moment when Freud makes a point of saying that history has condensed two Moses into one. Add the Hasidic concepts of time, using condensation and timelessness, and it becomes easier to see why Freud could tease out two Moses in his book, Moses and Monotheism.

Epicurus and Freud

Epicurus' philosophy was often placed with Stoicism but they are quite different. Freud has been discussed from the position of both these philosophies (Kirsner, 2006). The Stoics saw the attainment of pleasure as solely through the virtues (arete). Epicureans, Aristotle and Freud allowed some material gains or ways of attaining pleasure as also leading to a good life.
The pleasure principle is the cornerstone of Epicurian thinking. This is not the hedonistic pleasure principle and neither was Freud's.It is about the most pleasure, in the long run, not short term pleasures. Pleasure is attained through the virtues.Pleasure is about minimizing pain.
There is also a limit in simple living, and he who fails to understand this falls into an error as great as that of the man who gives way to extravagance
(Epicurus)
For example
Sexual pleasure promotes good things (pleasure, relationships, children), but not in excess, or immoral as this brings pain and suffering.

Friendship is also a pleasure (Epicurus says the greatest) and so short term gains at the expense of your friends means long term loss of this pleasure.

This is about the balance of good and evil or as Moses Maimonides(RaMBaM) says that good and evil are mere facets of the same thing (Moses Maimomides).
So Bentham and Mills also promoted the pleasure principle, the most good, least pain approach to justice and ethical living.
Freud certainly read all 4 writers.He studied classical philosophy at the gymnasium. His family were Hasidic and he would have read Moses as well, it was in his library.
Freud lived in a time of austerity, dictatorship, wars, repression and anti-semitism. There was little in the way of virtues and little in the way of pleasure to be found in Vienna for a Jewish person. There was a long history of little pleasure for Jewish people for some millenia. So Freud balanced the pleasure principle with the reality principle.(Freud, 1911).
Aristotle called pleasure eudaimonia but he saw the happiness as a byproduct of virtue. Epicurus saw virtue as the pathway to eudaimonia.
Thus the id drives are towards eudaimonia. The super-ego applies the virtues. Thus the ego Ich is in balance, not in a struggle between opposing forces but as a complementary drive.Like the 'breaking of the vessels' both good and bad exists and virtue Tikkun holds them together. This leads to the best life in this world and ever after.

Happiness therefore comes from inner reflection, reason, rational thinking and promotion of the virtues. This is an enlightened, humanist approach, promoted by Freud and Epicurus. Irrespective of the gods, Man has the capacity to look inwardly, to know himself, towards the greater good. In some this is called religious experience, to others psychotherapy. Many philosophers have called this looking into the soul, this word is interchangeable with mind. Epicurus saw soul as material, made up of atoms. The concept of mind is therefore equivalent to an atomic concept of soul.
Epicurus stated that the fear of death and eternal punishment by the ongoingness of the soul after death, was the main cause of suffering.He denied that the soul continued after death, thereby reducing this anxiety. He promoted .carpe diem. Freud also saw anxiety, the thanatos drive as the main anxiety, caused unhappiness and illness(Freud, 1915).

Epicurus saw politics as a danger towards achieving happiness, as did Freud in his Civilisations and its discontents (Freud, 1930). Epicurus warns of the danger of blind trust in organisations
We must free ourselves from the prison of public education and politics (Epicurus). and
It is pointless for a man to pray to the gods for that which he has the power to obtain by himself.(Epicurus)
Freud also warned that this was a childish neurosis, wish for paternalism and incorporation of the father figure, rather than relying on one's own rational mind.

Epicurus believed that material objects were never wrong but that the soul/mind may make mistakes based on unconscious (unknown, inner processes) processes. This is a description of the unconscious and Freud's concepts of defense mechanisms, like repression (Freud, 1940).

Epicurus described the civilisation of mankind as the access to the power of fire. This is also reflected in Freud's writing in Totem and Taboo- the acquisition of fire (Freud, 1913).

The interpretation of dreams, the 'royal road to the unconscious' said Freud (Freud, 1900). Epicurus ( in his Vatican aphorisms) also said
Dreams have neither a divine nature nor a prophetic power, but they are the result of images that impact on us. (Epicurus)

To complete this discussion may I quote Epicurus
One must presume that long and short arguments contribute to the same end.
(Epicurus)
List of references
Epicurus, Vatican Sayings. Retrieved 25th April, 2010 from http://www.epicurus.net/en/vatican.html
Freud,S.(1900) The interpretation of dreams Penguin Freud Library.
(1911) Formulations on the two principles of mental functioning in On Metapsychology. PenguinFreud Library
(1913) Totem and taboo. Penguin Freud Library.
(1915) Instincts and their vicissitudes. in On Metapsychology. PenguinFreud Library
(1930) Civilisations and its discontents. Penguin Freud Library.
(1940) Splitting of the ego in the proces of defence in On Metapsychology. PenguinFreud Library
Kirsner, D. (2006). Freud, Civilization, Religion, and Stoicism. Psychoanal. Psychol., 23:354-366.
Konstan, D. (2009)Epicurus Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy Retrieved 15th April, 2010 from http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epicurus/
Moses Maimonides Guide to the Perplexed. The forgotten books.org.

some papers to find

Freud and Epicurus- some more works

(1958). Revue Française De Psychanalyse. XXI, 1957: Homage to Freud. F. Lechat. Pp. 325-330.. Psychoanal Q., 27:148.

http://www.yalom.com/sun/excerpts

The Conflict of Interpretations By Paul Ricoeur, Don Ihde

Epicurus

Interesting quotye
Don't fear god,
Don't worry about death;
What is good is easy to get, and
What is terrible is easy to endure.
—Philodemus, Herculaneum Papyrus, 1005, 4.9-14
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicureanism
This does seem to be some of Freud's theories.
and then the article goes on to say
In the Jewish exegetical tradition, the word "Apiqoros" (אפיקורוס) appears in Rabbinical literature as a reference to those who lack religion or are ostensibly atheistic. Its origins are uncertain, but it may have originally referred specifically to the Epicurean philosophy, although it eventually came to refer to any philosophy lacking a God or a God-based morality. It is also occasionally used to describe heretic principles or heretics themselves. The word is still used in modern Hebrew, mainly among religious Jews.

Biedermeier

The onset of the Biedermeier period in Vienna was almost exclusively determined by external circumstances. In an effort to avoid a repeat of the French revolution, the now re-established monarchies of Europe reigned with steel-fisted precision and secret intelligence agencies. The counterrevolutionary practices of Emperor Francis and his minister of state, Matternich, reached legendary proportions. Lodges, clubs, and societies were shut down; members were imprisoned. This effectively forced people from the coffee houses and meeting halls into the privacy of their homes. Heindl tells us, “The world outside was politically dangerous, so private life, home, and social contacts were restricted to a circle of true and reliable friends.”
Green, A. Retrieved 18th April 2010 from http://classicalmusic.about.com/od/romanticperiod/a/aabeidermeier.htm
Now isn't that interesting. Another reason why people didn't write or say things - censorship and power.

Stocism?

So Freud was perhaps a stoic towards the external world. So was Nietzsche and Schopenhauer. We know that he loved his wife although of course there are some works that say that Martha was a wife and intellectually Freud was closer to Anna than Martha. The separation of the sexes was/is not just a social and cultural thing but also part of Jewish culture- again to the outside world stoicism but clearly not within the home. Same as the Aboriginal people- to the outside world the women support their husbands to be in power and control. Within the house, the women rule. Speigel uber speigel.
So was the Beidermeyer culture in Vienna this type of culture- men in charge and women subservient at least to the outside world? Is this reflected in Freud's stoicism- on the outside no emotion and in charge- on the inside- empathy and therapeutic love.

Meanwhile Ellenberger says that Freud is Epicurean- there is a paper in that I believe. The aim is the reduction of anxiety by avoiding frustration of the person. Possession and its opposite- obsession. Obsession is the lack of something wanted- fantasy and wishes. Reference R.de Saussure (1938)Epicure de Freud.Gesundhart und Wohlfort XVIII pps 356-360.
Aristotle says that the philosophy of the soul is psychology of the mind- at least in my translations - so I am asking an expert in ancient Greek translation to confirm this or not.- There in lies another paper methinks.

Mesmer is said to have been part of secret socities- (Ellengerger).His paper for medical degree was on the relationship of the planets to mental disorders. He was in some trouble in Paris until Cagliostro took the limelight letting Mesmer off the hook. Mesmer also sold his 'secrets'of animal magnetism. One of those who bought the secrets were the Knights of MALTA. Before Mesmer worked in Paris - yes he worked in Vienna. Mesmer also learned magnetism from earlier Gesner

Mortz Benedict 1864 showed that the hysteric neurosis were from painful secrets- mostly of the sexual life. He was from Vienna.

Language

Language is the symbols/ metaphors of ideas. Freud spoke many languages- why is that?
His mother only spoke Yiddish. All his jokes in Jokes and their relation to the Unconscious are Yiddish jokes.
Freud wrote in German, as he lived in Austria.There are at least three levels of German language- that is three languages.
There must be interesting brain development for someone who speaks that many languages fluently.
So I will attempt to learn German and Yiddish-Oh vey- not so easy!
Already I see that there is a quality of humour that underlies Yiddish, very different to German humour and of course different to British or American humour (although a lot of humour, comedy in USA comes from Jewish/ Yiddish comedians).
An interesting comment I found about the development of Yiddish language- it was used to maintain secret information that Gentiles should not have- for protection of course, but maybe more. Maybe God's chosen people have knowledge that they need to be caretakers for. Hence the symbols- the non-verbal communication that uses symbols and codes to see who is in the know and who you need to maintain silence. The ability to keep secrets- important to doctors but even more so for psychiatrists.
So this is an important point for my theories about what Freud really meant and where he was coming from.
If there is important knowledge from the distant past, much of which has been lost and much of which has been purposely denied in terms of power- that makes our ancestors very knowledgeable- not primitives as we are led to believe.
It reminds me of the damascene sword- very fascinating that the ancient technology ( nano-technology at that) has been lost and despite damascene swords still available with superior quality, they cannot be reproduced- and we think we are that smart.
Like the library at Alexandria, and possibly the library at the base of the Sphinx- we don't really want to lose the basics of knowledge- we may need them again some day (as Enoch/Noah/Solomon believed.Is that what Freud was trying to code or decode for us?

Schopenhauer

Schopeneur was in Vienna. His father was possibly a Castilian Jewish person but suicided when S was 18 years of age. His mother was an author, unhappy in marriage and she left S and his sister as she did not want her marriage or children( same situation with the Kaiser and Sissi/Rudolf) S turned to Indian mysticism. He greastly influenced Freud and Jung. There are elements of the unconscious, death impulse,( treatise on the right to suicide), sexual ideas like homosexuality, bisexuality and the importance of the sex drivein his work.
I also note that Mesmer taught at University of Vienna 1759-1777.
and Paracelsus is said to be the first to talk about an uncosncious, 1493.
Otto Rank studied Pico della Mirandella, as did Jung.
Fritz Lang, filmmaker from Vienna , escaped Nazis, his mother was Jewish from Brno, Moravia, arricved about the same time in Vienna as freud, influenced by Kabbalah.
Also need to follow up on the influence of Erasmus (Kabbalah Castilian Jewish - from Portugal to Holland like my family), on Freud- certainly was on Schopeneur.

plaigiarism?

Hmmm thought, if Freud sourced other places for his theories, without referencing then is this plagiarism? Of course there were different rules back in his day.
We all stand on the shoulders of others in regard to prior knowledge of course.
So I need to steer a course between a 'plot' and plagiarism.
I guess if knowledge is something that everyone is talking about at the time then it is common usage/ common knowledge really. There are some loose boundaries here of course.
Professor Kirsner's paper on Freud and stoicism looks like an interesting methodology, define each side then look for the parallels in Freud's work to the stoics. From a practical psychoanalytic point of view, reducing or masking your emotions is important, even whens some patients are clearly trying to shock you, or have a sadistic need to threaten or narcissistic need to be noticed. One requires enough empathy however, and it needs to be genuine, to be able to engage. Sounds more Aristotle, a balanced sense of one one ought.

Philosophers

I remember reading that the main influences on Freud were Goethe, Schiller and Brentano.
USQ library has a collection on Schiller so will have to review those.

Humer, W. (2010) Franz Brentano. Retrieved 9th April, 2010 from http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/brentano/

Here is an interesting work- although Catholic, he left the priesthood. He worked at the University of Vienna when Freud was there. He left disenchanted as the law in Austria did not allow him to marry as an ex-priest. His work is about science and, psychology and phenomenology. He worked on the aspects of mind- intentionality and inner mind of mental illness. He also wrote on time in mind- must find a copy.
He talked about the timelessness of inner mind, the only reality is the present and the present remembers the past within its own context- ie there is no past.
Reading Goethe is always a pleasure.

Thoughts for 8/4/2010

Three concepts of the definition of Esoteric
1. Inner processes- like thoughts, to know thyself, ie internalised. Maybe relates to preconscious /conscious interchange
2.Hidden as this is dangerous information or knowledge. Codes, symbols, metaphors, non-verbal communication.This becomes an alternate language, hidden in full view to everyone, This is a communal process, very dependent upon the Other. Oral knowledge and tradition.
3. Unconscious, spiritual, totally inner process, beyond words.
Some thoughts then about Freud.
Freud's psychoanalysis is aimed at verbalising 1.
Freud knew the symbols and metaphors, Hassidic stories, jokes and cultural aspects of his Jewish community. How many of the symbols in the ten years he was with the B'nai B'rith, did he know? He had esoteric knowledge type 2. So therefore only those who have the same knowledge can interpret the reality from the false self.
Was psychoanalysis type 3 but probably at a lower level than attainable if you go to the source of the esoteric knowledge (Zohar, Tanya, Torah etc).

In Bakan's book, Bakan, D. (1958). Sigmund Freud and the Jewish mystical tradition. Princeton, van Norstrand.
'Freud was a member of the Yiddish Scientific Institute
(YIVO) in Vilno'. Now there is something I did not know. Lots of information about Freud is 'hidden'.
Freud said
'Once again our people is faced with dark times requiring us
to gather all our strength in order to preserve unharmed all
culture and science during the present harsh storms. The significance
of YIVO of Vilno among our other institutions you
know better than I do'
This reminds me of the processes of the falls of Jerusaleum, the role Enoch, Noah, Moses had to play to conserve the accumulated wisdom. There is a wonderful part of Virgil's Aenid when Troy is sacked and Aenus realises that the responsibility of safe custody of the wisdom of the people is in his hands, literally in the scrolls. Knowledge is so powerful. These are parallels. Bakan talks about the possibility that Freud saw himself as the/a Messiah. This is a different Messiah to the Christian model it seems to me.It is a person who has knowledge and can lead his people to safety. As Bakan says there are a number of types of knowledge. So Freud sees himself as Hannibal, Moses and Oedipus. So did he leave a trail for others to find the deeper meaning of his works, coded symbols, metaphor and are these art of them? Am I right that Moses and Monothesism is the rosetta stone to understanding Freud's work.

Thank you Bakan by the way- I did not know the answer as to why the Moses statue had horns- now I do. Michelangelo was not Jewish, as far as I know.

Ellenberger- must be Jewish. His model of the history of ideas is a spiritual one. I have long argued about the tree of knowledge having so many branches, specialities, subspecialities that it has become fragmented and no-one knows what one group is doing, so we keep re-iventing the wheel. The fragmentation is related to Humanism and Cartesianism argues John Carroll (The wreck of western culture(2004) Melbourne: Scribe publications). He has published a book called Ego and Soul (2008) which sounds like I should read it.